Autogenic Training—a tool to combat stress and improve brain health

00:00:03: Welcome to the Brain Health Mission Podcast, exploring how science policy and everyday choices shape the health of your brain.

00:00:10: And what you can do

00:00:32: and I am joined by Professor Max

00:00:35: Hildes.

00:00:36: You are an internationally recognized neurologist, you're specialized in the autonomic nervous system.

00:00:44: that means a system not controlled by will like bowel or breathing disorders of this particular part in neurological intensive care medicine.

00:01:04: so you have a very broad background and that is very nice as a guest on our podcast.

00:01:11: You've led a lot of international, neurological and autonomic societies and made guidelines And also as an esteemed scientist you published lots in your field... ...and actually are the author of a textbook which is quite exciting Even though you have been focusing on medicine, anatomy, physiology and how the nervous system is built.

00:01:41: You also had a particular interest in how to cope with stress related disorders And especially emphasised the value of autogenic training.

00:01:53: We are not the only one who would like to have you as a guest.

00:02:03: You've also been honored with several prizes and lectures for all your contributions from neurology, autonomic medicine or neuroscience in general.

00:02:15: Was that nice introduction?

00:02:18: You had so much I could speak about Max!

00:02:23: Well unfortunately... I'm trying to relax.

00:02:30: So thank you for the flowers!

00:02:34: We all need them and they were so well-deserved.

00:02:39: but if we should say it in two words, You are a so called autonomic expert And To simplify that one can say as i said That you're an Expert of the autonomous part of the nervous system or not voluntarily control such as bowels and breathing, digestion.

00:03:06: You don't think about do I digest or not when you're sitting in a meeting?

00:03:10: Or if we are sitting on the bus and so on.

00:03:13: Well...you start to think of it when doesn't work And then sit at your bus and can't control your bowel function longer.

00:03:21: That's terrible.

00:03:23: When you stand up since you shift some you cannot Control that any longer and you can't counter-regulate.

00:03:32: You will feel dizzy or you may faint, or it may lose your consciousness completely.

00:03:39: And basically the autonomic nervous system controls everything.

00:03:42: I tell my students from up at Your hair down to your toe nails in anything between sleep Respiration Everything we don't have to care about.

00:03:55: Only when it starts not to work properly We are in trouble.

00:04:00: In very serious trouble and many diseases associated with autonomic dysfunction, many neurological diseases, many internal myths or disorders like diabetes for example goes along with a lot of bowel dysfunction, cardiovascular dysfunction.

00:04:20: the heart cannot control blood pressure properly vessels don't constrict adequately and many, many other problems including sweating.

00:04:31: It doesn't work the way it should work... And so on!

00:04:34: So a whole realm you cannot even imagine if we don't dive into that.

00:04:40: You could say in a way when the autonomic nerve system is working?

00:04:45: We don't care about very much.

00:04:47: but If does not work then will indeed recognize

00:04:52: Yes, in most cases.

00:04:54: Of course when you are very excited because... ...you have to run up the stairs and your heart is pounding And do feel the palpitations of your fingers You realize this happening but can't stop it When you're having an important podcast I'm not But might be excited or nervous about that.

00:05:20: That's the autonomic nervous system because what it does, It creates stress.

00:05:26: Any external stimulus that is a challenge.

00:05:31: Also any disease that is challenged fever headache whatever Is a stressor.

00:05:38: and The term stress was coined by Hans Selger the Austrian Canadian researcher only in the thirties or late twenties, thirtys.

00:05:53: In I think thirty six he coined a term.

00:05:58: He said there is no general definition of stress but it basically any nonspecific response to an external or internal demand for change.

00:06:13: that's very general definition.

00:06:16: nowadays we have other definitions all about probably more precise, but whenever such a situation occurs the autonomic system is different from what it is at rest and could cause a lot of trouble.

00:06:33: That's true!

00:06:35: And you can't cheat very much on an autonomic nerve system like say if we start to run then your heart will beat faster.

00:06:43: because that's part of our reaction.

00:06:45: A mother of a student yesterday and she said that, She had the very nice observation when he hadn't been drinking because on his second glass of wine He will always get very flushed in his face.

00:07:03: So even though he claims that he's only being drinking water she can sort

00:07:08: of.

00:07:08: Alcohol is a vasodilating substance.

00:07:11: You shouldn't drink alcohol When you go onto an airplane.

00:07:15: I had a lot of transatlantic flights because the fact that i also worked in estates and in germany.

00:07:21: And,i cannot count how many times i was confronted with people who fainted on the flight.

00:07:29: you probably also have that experience.

00:07:31: they call is there doctor onboard?

00:07:33: Then say okay im coming!

00:07:36: In many cases it's just that... People don't realize to drink more.. Because u have no control over autonomic, unnoticed loss of fluid.

00:07:51: You sweat without feeling it, perspiration or insensibilis, you don't sense it.

00:07:58: and that's in an airplane.

00:08:01: so the air pressure is lower, oxygen level is a little lower.

00:08:05: people drink because they're nervous.

00:08:08: I think i want to sleep and that vasodilates.

00:08:17: Once they stand up, they may faint.

00:08:20: That's the autonomic nervous system that is not taken care of when you exercise and stop immediately And everyone who is used to jogging or endurance training will not stop abruptly Any cardiologist doing a challenge test on heart function.

00:08:41: It also tells you to slow down at the end of tests until your pulse rate is back down.

00:08:47: If not, then you will faint and lose consciousness!

00:08:51: After some time when I started working on a very difficult disease with inborn dysfunctional autonomic nervous system... ...I quickly realized that children are usually very rare as can actually cause disease.

00:09:09: They had a life expectancy of around six years, five-six years.

00:09:13: By now it's up to fifty years.

00:09:15: so big change because we have better access to autonomic function and controlling it.

00:09:21: And I learned when they're stressed... ...they can immediately trigger the so called Autonomous Crisis.

00:09:31: The blood pressure can go through the roof They sweat profusely as if there were if they came out of the bathtub and The psychological situation is in total disarray, And it's a high-risk situation.

00:09:49: If you can calm down these people You can avoid such a situation.

00:09:56: So to the listeners do drink when being on an airplane but not alcohol because that Hydrates even further.

00:10:05: if your exercising which should on a regular basis, then take some time to gear down and do not go from hundred to zero because as Max here says that is all good for you anyway end up fainting which definitely it's not the very wise thing to do in asphalt or wherever.

00:10:23: And we also know are starting about calming the automatic nerve system down Because even though It cannot be influenced so easily the voluntarily nervous system, you can't say just start to digest.

00:10:37: You can control it in some ways or at least modulate it and that is thing we're going to talk about mainly.

00:10:45: max

00:10:46: on a training training that generates something by itself if you want to relax her totally under stress.

00:11:01: I have friends, some of them prestigious neurologists tell me I have too much stress right now.

00:11:07: It's terrible!

00:11:07: You know?

00:11:08: I can't sleep...I can't relax.

00:11:10: and Some of them i taught that you want me to show you how to relax.

00:11:14: oh no this is not gonna work.

00:11:18: in the cases where really did it was fortunately enough To show then yes it works very well.

00:11:24: How does it

00:11:25: work?!

00:11:28: No religious beliefs, no philosophy or any esoteric thoughts.

00:11:34: But just on the fact that it is basically reinforcing what you predict.

00:11:42: Schultz came from the days in the nineteenth century and published his first book in nineteen twenty-seven but of course on the autonomic nervous system, so ninety-nine years ago.

00:12:00: But of course that book was basically a summary of decades of experience.

00:12:06: and he started with hypnosis something Stigman Freud started with.

00:12:13: He carefully recorded what his patients told him.

00:12:19: What do you feel in beginning such an hypnotic state?

00:12:24: Well, I feel calm.

00:12:27: I feel relaxed.

00:12:31: What do you feel in terms of your body functions?

00:12:34: Your arms and legs?

00:12:36: Before we started You were restless.

00:12:38: We're always moving around.

00:12:40: And well they are heavy.

00:12:44: They are relaxed Not really uncomfortable But i don't want to move them It's just comfortable not to move that.

00:12:52: He took note all about it And he took notes, so basically it starts.

00:12:57: He took note with something that many of his patients if not all of them reported and is like what if I first tell him you can be calm?

00:13:11: You can relax.

00:13:13: noise doesn't bother you!

00:13:16: If you start to do this then say okay Turn your attention, let's say to the left arm or right arm and feel it.

00:13:27: It is...it has some weight!

00:13:29: It is heavy.

00:13:30: Its not uncomfortable heavy but of course if you rest your arms on a chair And focus in it and relax You feel oh okay?

00:13:41: There are some weights.

00:13:43: its not like weight lifting But just have some weight.

00:13:50: What this guy told me and what I want to feel is really happening.

00:13:57: And it's like self-repetitive, a bit of mobile so... But anyone who wants to relax when you use these different steps its going to work.

00:14:10: You've already delved into that.

00:14:12: but how can autogenic training be good for coping with stress?

00:14:18: Consequently also a good thing for your brain health.

00:14:22: Okay, so that requires it.

00:14:25: I speak a little bit about what happens during stress.

00:14:28: So Turing Stress we activate What's called the sympathetic nervous system?

00:14:35: The sympathetic nervous System is That part when you have to work very hard When You walk up the stairs when you Preparing For Very Difficult Conversation Your heart rate is faster, your blood pressure is higher.

00:14:54: You might even start sweating a little bit.

00:14:59: and that dates back to thousands of millions of years.

00:15:03: because in those days when we were exposed To an acute stressful situation it could be very dangerous Situation.

00:15:13: where?

00:15:13: We had to run away or I have to fight and defend ourselves.

00:15:19: at the days of The Caveman, you had to widen your pupils because in a cave there was no electric light bulb not even like candle.

00:15:30: Nothing!

00:15:31: So when it gets dark we automatically... the autonomic nervous system automatically widens the pupil so that more light comes in and all these things.

00:15:45: We pre-steeper faster, we have a better exchange.

00:15:49: More oxygen goes in more carbon dioxide goes out of our lungs.

00:15:53: everything needed to basically be In a position where we can defend ourselves Where we can run away.

00:16:03: That's a term described by Walter Kennan already twenty years before Hans Söder described the terms stress and he called it the fight and flight response.

00:16:14: And some people also call it, The Fright Response because it also mounts when we are exposed to something that scares us a lot!

00:16:26: That is very important response.

00:16:29: but so the sympathetic is up and calming down... So the parasympathetic is the rest in digest system which is prominent.

00:16:40: where do you sleep?

00:16:43: During stress, there's too much sympathetic.

00:16:46: Too little parasympathetic.

00:16:47: on top of that There is a whole realm Of endocrine changes.

00:16:52: the brain The so-called hyposalamus talks to the pituitary plant.

00:16:59: the pituritary plant immediately releases substances called ACTH That release Cortisol from the kidneys Excuse me from the, not the kidneys but the supra-renal part.

00:17:19: And in that case cortisol is needed because it triggers energy release, glucose, gluconeogenesis and of course lipolysis.

00:17:33: so fat is released and formed into energy...and you can use them!

00:17:39: But if it works acutely, It can become very dangerous.

00:17:43: If its too much the system could break down!

00:17:47: If it works chronically constantly Too much sympathetic high blood pressure racing heart rate is not healthy.

00:17:58: Its very dangerous and causes a lot of diseases.

00:18:01: Constantly high cortisol Is extremely bad because you lose your ability to mount responses that fight inflammation is attenuated, it doesn't work properly.

00:18:18: You lose muscle function you can even loose bone density etc.

00:18:24: a lot of side effects of cortisol which we as physicians are very familiar with probably not lay audience.

00:18:34: and this combination of too much sympathetic, of to much cortisol is absolutely dangerous.

00:18:44: In the short run if it's too much you can die sudden deaths.

00:18:49: or in the long-run it can cause a stroke... It can cause heart attack and a thousand other problems.

00:18:59: To sum up Max you could say that.

00:19:04: and flight, fright whatever responses we call them because it's important for survival.

00:19:09: I mean when you suddenly there comes a car and it rushes very fast then you need to jump away otherwise you will be driven over.

00:19:16: that would be game over so-to say.

00:19:19: but what are explaining us in a good way is too much of it either acutely or too much over longer time its destructive power It's a superpower there and then to save us from life-threatening events, but not in the long run all the time.

00:19:39: Yes that is absolutely right!

00:19:41: There are some people... I don't use this term ...but there are also some who even speak of oil stress because when you're stressed for example anyone in sportive competition is stressed But he wins.

00:19:55: He is excited, happy afterwards wants to celebrate.

00:20:01: risk is over and you made it, and you mastered the challenge or survived battle.

00:20:10: You want to celebrate your survival...or success!

00:20:13: You release a lot of dopamine which makes you active happy and joyful etc.

00:20:23: With autogenic training can rearrange this disbalance.

00:20:29: Of course, nobody's going to start autogenic training when he is really in a dangerous situation and needs to escape.

00:20:36: He's happy that you can still mount fight-and-flight response also.

00:20:41: people usually don't know what it is but they mounted!

00:20:45: And its very good.

00:20:48: But with Autogenic Training chronic stress as well as acute stress When you prepare You have go through the dentist.

00:20:59: this time he's gonna drill and it is.

00:21:01: I don't like it, i hate it.

00:21:03: I know grown-up very successful business people.

00:21:07: sometimes when these people hear a drill somewhere they hate it because it remembers...it reminds them and recalls unpleasant memories about alerts.

00:21:21: you can use autogenic training very successfully to mitigate The pain and the anxiety.

00:21:33: And how does it work?

00:21:36: When you relax, when you have a system that... Let's talk about sleep!

00:21:43: When you're sleeping we've got a lot of parasitic setting.

00:21:46: Autogenic training has nothing to do with sleep.

00:21:50: You record brain waves as someone who is fully awake.

00:21:56: It isn't your pattern.

00:22:00: So when you are in deep sleep, You have what we call delta waves very slow waves.

00:22:05: When your awake?

00:22:06: You have alpha waves.

00:22:07: they're much faster and The same is true when someone is In a state of auto auto-genic training.

00:22:17: it's not Slow Delta waves here fully away at our word.

00:22:24: still you'll come you relaxed to have more parasympathetic, more rest and digest activity.

00:22:34: And less of the activity that is associated with stress.

00:22:39: That you can learn!

00:22:43: We are not listeners giving you the autogenic training experienced here now.

00:22:48: but Max is going to describe steps in a process for Autogenic Training.

00:22:54: then try it at home later when you're on a calm setting and you feel ready to do this.

00:23:01: And, You could also go into further literature on the theme because you have some hooks that can put your knowledge up.

00:23:07: So Max it's time for Your Steps!

00:23:09: Yeah thankyou.

00:23:10: so I Also want To mention That there are a lot of in The internet On whatever YouTube or Whatever you Want to use.

00:23:17: i'm sure i didn't search but i am Sure you find everything There including Videos Of Autogenic Training.

00:23:24: they're all so recordings of autogenic training.

00:23:29: But I have some problems with this, because... ...I really want to have the interaction with a person in whom i try- Who might try help?

00:23:40: I'm not inducing it!

00:23:41: So just telling that person what they may feel and if he doesn't wanna feel it as said before is not going anywhere but you cannot influence anyone.

00:23:54: When you see these circus performances, they select thousands of potential volunteers.

00:24:02: And there are specific tests that have been described already by Hirashultz a hundred years ago which we can use to find out whether somebody is easily accessible for suggestion.

00:24:18: and then when you see the guy who does hypnosis He says something and the person starts to hop around like a monkey or something.

00:24:29: That's of course all baloney because these are very highly selected, one two three five out of two thousand or so And that is something I don't want to share with.

00:24:43: So i dont'want be put in same frame as this people because it is a highly useful medical procedure.

00:24:54: As I just said, in many cases it works better than something like sedating benzodiazepine volume.

00:25:06: most people know.

00:25:07: of course there are many others but uh i guess almost everybody has heard the word value.

00:25:13: and What happens?

00:25:15: You cannot drive a car afterwards, you have to make sure that your don't cause an accident.

00:25:22: After autogenic training... ...you return the status before and you're fine!

00:25:32: Also there are very few contra-indications when it comes to Autogenic Training.

00:25:37: You should not do this in anyone who just had psychotic episodes or who has a chronic psychotic disease like schizophrenia, Or have very severe obsessive-compulsive disorder.

00:25:50: And with an unknown audience you never know to whom your talking.

00:25:54: Nevertheless so these are the steps.

00:25:56: The first step is that people that the noise, this surrounding noise.

00:26:01: People say I can't you know my phone is ringing all of a time and then someone's knocking on door outside.

00:26:06: they're talking very loudly And that disturbs me.

00:26:10: No!

00:26:10: You cannot tell yourself This is not going to disturb you.

00:26:14: Just try to calm down.

00:26:17: It will work with a snip off your finger But it takes some time.

00:26:24: The training usually take several weeks And you learn one step after the other, because if we do everything at once people might be frustrated.

00:26:34: In many cases it works in my experience.

00:26:37: but for someone who wants to learn... Do it step by step!

00:26:40: The next step is that you feel your right is heavy and the best position of doing this is to be flat on a floor or mattress In a comfortable position, but you also can do it in your office.

00:26:56: When you're sitting at your office desk You can rest your arms on the desk and after awhile you feel oh really my arm has some weight.

00:27:05: Of course It had some weight And then go to next arm.

00:27:10: Then both arms Imagine that they are heavy and become legs.

00:27:17: The second step is when you relax Of course, you start to lower the sympathetic.

00:27:26: The blood pressure is high... ...the heart rate is chasing and the small vessels are constricted.

00:27:34: That's what brings blood pressure up.

00:27:36: No!

00:27:37: It goes down And sooner or later with relaxation You feel that it's warm because more blood comes into your extremities.

00:27:50: your hand or foot might feel somewhat warmer after some while it really does.

00:27:57: What happens is that in the central autonomic network, there are many systems that talk to each other and these systems basically lower output of sympathetic activity which mainly comes from a specific area on the brain stem and they increase parasympathetic activity just as if we start to fall asleep but you're not falling asleep, so the next thing is that it's warm.

00:28:33: It's comfortably warm.

00:28:34: Relaxed, heavy, quiet...it's warm!

00:28:39: Again right side left hand arms legs feet left right etc.

00:28:47: And when this autonomic change continues with more parasympathetic, rest and digest activity your heart rate is somewhat slowing down.

00:29:07: But it's also you feel the pulsation sometimes in your fingertips.

00:29:16: Look, usually you don't feel that.

00:29:19: When I speak about Autonomic Modulation... ...I sometimes tell my students to think of a motorcycle and when the engine is running.... ...and you stand at red light it goes boom-boom-boom!

00:29:34: And when your racing down the street just goes brrrrt!

00:29:37: So you dont hear the explosions!

00:29:41: And that's the same when your heart goes really fast.

00:29:44: You don't necessarily feel any palpitation in your finger pulse, but when you slow down and relax... ...you start to feel it!

00:29:54: And then you start feeling your heart.

00:30:00: Very few people are worried about this.

00:30:03: They need not be worried unless they have a cardial disorder or some sort of heart-rhythm.

00:30:11: so-called arrhythmia, but that's the next step.

00:30:15: So my heart beats strongly regularly rhythmically and it is relaxing.

00:30:25: And what happens next?

00:30:28: Your respiration starts slower.

00:30:31: Slow respiration at around weep-rees twelve times per minute.

00:30:40: And when we relax, it's slower.

00:30:42: It goes down and can go even to half that frequency.

00:30:47: so only six times per minute.

00:30:50: Six times per minutes in autonomic testing is a perfect test... ...to see how much parasympathetic activity someone really raises.

00:31:04: The sympathetic activity rises at six times which means five seconds in, five seconds out is ten seconds times.

00:31:16: six is sixty seconds one minute.

00:31:18: You have a perfect optimal parasympathetic modulation and that happens with relaxation.

00:31:28: so when I then at a later stage tell people your respiration goes totally automatically the air flows and like the waves at this sea they come, it all goes automatically.

00:31:44: The person who does that feels oh yeah I don't have to do anything!

00:31:50: It goes automatically And i feel comfortable...I'm relaxed.

00:31:55: So its a constant repetition of..i predict something which is going to happen is reassured.

00:32:09: Oh yeah, it's... It functions!

00:32:11: This guy is not talking baloney but I really can relax.

00:32:17: and after some weeks he gets better and better.

00:32:19: And they assure when.. When they mediate more relaxation They are sure that the small arteries That surround and working within our guts Our barrels The small intestine and the colon, they are dilated.

00:32:42: So it gets warmer!

00:32:44: All organs are better perfused.

00:32:47: Thirty percent of our blood flow go to gastrointestinal tract And if we relax more goes there After a heavy meal.

00:32:58: you're tired because less blood is here More blood is in your stomach.

00:33:04: so I would say And so that's the next step, you feel it is warm and relaxed.

00:33:13: There are another steps to keep a cool head.

00:33:18: Actually I'm sure Schultz also didn't know because only few years ago there was publication showing with cooling pads on forehead You can activate the parasympositic system.

00:33:36: Well, that's the cold face test.

00:33:38: We've known that for a long time But it's recently been published in the context of migraine treatment.

00:33:43: It helps in migraine.

00:33:46: on The other hand if someone there are few cases they're sensitive to cold stimuli and in those I Would skip that part but otherwise?

00:33:58: I guess troops thought more about the fact that you want to stay cool in a stressful situation.

00:34:08: So keep a cool head, a cool brain so to say.

00:34:14: that's basically the last of these.

00:34:16: I think it was seven steps calm heaviness after limbs feeling off warms filling up the pulsation and extremities The heart you feel at its regular but the freezing The abdominal function and the coolness, so if you wish.

00:34:38: And then to take this back... You move your arms, you move your legs Take a forceful strong press, open your eyes Just like waking up in the morning!

00:34:54: Stretch yourself and tell yourself I'm fully awake unless that you shouldn't Drive a car, for example.

00:35:04: You really have to stand firmly on both feet.

00:35:09: So that's the theoretical concept.

00:35:11: if we still have time I can tell you how it works when comes to anticipatory stress.

00:35:19: so anticipate.

00:35:21: anticipatory Stress means stress fear anxiety The fight and flight response is increasing.

00:35:33: We're getting nervous.

00:35:36: Perhaps intimidated, perhaps aggressive because sympathetic system is mounting.

00:35:43: you have to face a conversation with someone who always mean and nasty And You don't like it but you have do it?

00:35:52: You already expect that It's going be stressful!

00:35:57: I have experienced students, as head of the examiners committee.

00:36:12: I had to give a lot of medical exams for students and sports exams full-fledged neurologists... ...I would experience that some of those students whom i knew well they know a lot!

00:36:28: They were so nervous that their answer didn't come.

00:36:32: So when you give them a little bit of time to relax, just half-a minute or so they talk.

00:36:41: It's functioning!

00:36:42: That is the anticipatory stress... The anticipatory anxiety This one study.

00:36:49: what did we do?

00:36:50: We asked two groups of students.

00:36:53: They had nothing with medicine but students from university told us a few bucks of money to if you participate and You have to come twice first meeting, then two weeks later again.

00:37:08: And we asked them do you want to learn organic training or just wanna Come back?

00:37:13: So We made sure that around half-and-half One group had all the chenic training.

00:37:20: The other didn't.

00:37:22: what did we do during the First and second test?

00:37:25: same procedure with it nine electrical stimuli as they are conventionally done in clinical neurophysiology.

00:37:36: When you measure the conduction velocity of a nerve or for sensory nerves, we apply a little for sensory particularly very little electrical current.

00:37:47: so that yes it's not pleasant but We want people to come back, so we never tested what is the upper level this particular person accepts.

00:38:02: On a scale zero no pain ten.

00:38:06: I'm never gonna comeback and you're terrible person.

00:38:12: five would be the utmost.

00:38:13: we go through And made sure that but we always try to stay below.

00:38:22: So, so... We wanted to make sure they come back and we said there are three types of stimuli very mild which you probably might not even feel moderate Which is somewhere in between And those that are very close To.

00:38:37: what do consider now it gets unpleasant?

00:38:41: And we said..we don't know What the machine does.

00:38:46: It works at random automatically!

00:38:49: We have no influence.

00:38:50: That wasn't really true.

00:38:52: I mean, of course we knew what to do but you know that the electrical charge needs some time.

00:39:04: if you have a stronger stimulus it takes longer.

00:39:08: so when you have to wait longer is more intense.

00:39:16: It was a short stimulus, and we always said the stimulus is going to come within the next one hundred eighty seconds.

00:39:22: Three minutes first stimulus comes.

00:39:26: you see You announce it And you'll see how heart rate increases How blood pressure goes up?

00:39:32: We meet every.

00:39:34: we measure every heartbeat Every Pulsation of the blood pressure.

00:39:41: so we measure continuously not every five minutes every beat and we can see heart rate goes up, not pressure also goes up.

00:39:51: We measure the perfusion of the fingertip.

00:39:54: that shows us whether there's a lot of sympathetic activity.

00:39:57: it goes down.

00:39:59: so vasoconstriction.

00:40:01: The longer you wait...the more anxiety and higher your heart rate.

00:40:07: When I unexpectedly do such stimulation in you Your heart rate will after the stimulus go up because its an arousal Arousal brings up your blood pressure, it brings out the heart rate.

00:40:22: In these guys immediately upon a moment when we delivered the stimulus they were relieved and said that wasn't bad!

00:40:31: And heart rate and blood pressure whooped immediately went down to rest each day.

00:40:35: The longer the stimulus...the more anticipatory anxiety.

00:40:46: super safe responses.

00:40:48: The worst blood flow, constriction is very high.

00:40:54: and then in one group we did nothing.

00:40:57: they came back two weeks later on the other group We started.

00:41:01: I gave them six forty five minute or one hour training sessions of autogenic training And i told him please at home try to practice this once or twice a day.

00:41:17: Did they practice?

00:41:18: I have no idea.

00:41:19: I mean, students have other things to do!

00:41:23: So they came back and some practices home everyone...I don't know but definitely these six sessions.

00:41:34: their anticipatory anxiety was cut in half.

00:41:38: of course we did also tests using scales.

00:41:42: how painful it is How much anxiety did you perceive?

00:41:46: How much discomfort did you have?

00:41:49: How unpleasant was it, etc.

00:41:50: And the group that had no training.

00:41:54: their values were just as high and some even higher than before because they knew okay I have to go there again.

00:42:01: i don't like yet It's a waste of time but i'll get fifty bucks and done Okay.

00:42:07: so No improvement off the discomfort after Pain etc.

00:42:15: In those who had the six sessions, it was cut in

00:42:19: half

00:42:19: or even less and The change in blood pressure Was much less.

00:42:26: so blood pressure didn't go up Before the stimulus came.

00:42:31: And of course also dropped after the stimulus.

00:42:34: heart rate Didn't increase that much.

00:42:37: So first it went up here at.

00:42:39: then just a little bit and That is a clear and the psychological parameters also were cut in half.

00:42:52: So anxiety, distrust etc.

00:42:55: Restoration was flat at six cycles per minute.

00:43:02: They did it without any intervention but I assume they all did autogenic training while the stimulation was performed.

00:43:11: so It clearly shows that helps you reduce anticipatory stress.

00:43:20: And it's not something that is a cure for everything, of course not!

00:43:25: I mean... It doesn't heal cancer.

00:43:30: But if someone has broken leg as an accident they have lot of stress which can be in somebody who let say coronary artery disease and is at risk of myocardial infarction.

00:43:44: It can be very dangerous.

00:43:45: So relaxation, it's very important in such a situation after an accident.

00:43:51: In patients who had a after head injury dramatic brain injury After stroke they have a disarranged autonomic nervous system.

00:44:03: Lincoln and co-workers in the northern Manhattan strokes study showed that around seven percent, six point something percent of their patients five years after the stroke died and half of the fatalities or forty four percent I guess were due to sudden unexplained deaths.

00:44:27: That's triggered by acute stress.

00:44:30: in most cases a sudden unexplain death is due to acute stress.

00:44:36: with auto-training training You can avoid that.

00:44:40: I don't want to say you can avoid any case of sudden fatality, but you can of course mitigate stress

00:44:49: drastically.".

00:44:51: That is an extremely important message and definitely need to come back as a guest here Max because there are so many things we still need to discuss!

00:44:58: But if i am to sum up this episode in brief... Then we have spoken about autogenic training, being a part of the medical toolbox that it's definitely shown.

00:45:11: It has an effect not only in stressful situations but also in anticipatory stress like if you are facing exam.

00:45:23: I proceeded that it's going to be unpleasant.

00:45:26: You can use orthogenic training in order to cope better and also get back to yourself

00:45:32: afterwards.".

00:45:32: And as you say, there is no universal tool this.

00:45:40: I hope that the listeners had a lot of value from this, because it was very interesting talking to you.

00:45:53: And i'm definitely going to give Autogenic Training a shot!

00:45:58: Do some breathing exercises but explain them neatly.

00:46:01: with eight steps You start on the outside and then proceed inside.

00:46:06: Then when again go back into your normal view... ...you again start in the outside as well.

00:46:14: Do not forget the eight steps, people.

00:46:16: And definitely go for this if there are situations that you are fearing because it involves a lot of stress or If You Are Having A Chronic Stress Situation and Probably It Could Be Good For Everybody.

00:46:29: So thanks again Max for joining us on The Brain Health Mission Podcast.

00:46:34: We're Approaching The End.

00:46:37: I'm Also Very Happy That we Have Listeners Who Have Joined Us With This Very Interesting Conversation And we hope that those who are following us on a regular basis still will do.

00:46:49: Those just jumped in for this episode, will be intrigued and perhaps followers further!

00:46:55: So you can follow us on your preferred podcast platform?

00:47:00: Please feel free to share it with your network – stay tuned for more conversations about brain health.

00:47:06: There'll also probably come an episode of more autogenic training….

00:47:13: Thank you so much,

00:47:14: Max.

00:47:15: My pleasure!

00:47:20: You've been listening to the Brain Health Mission podcast where science meets action for a healthier brain.

00:47:25: If you enjoyed today's episode don't forget to follow us on Spotify or your favourite podcast app So you'll never miss an update For more tools tips and expert insights.

00:47:35: head to www.brainhalthmission.org.

00:47:37: That's www.BrainHealthMission.org.

00:47:40: Until next time.

00:47:41: take care of your brain.

00:47:43: It is The Only One You've Got.