Healthy Brain – Healthy Gut

00:00:03: Welcome to the Brain Health Mission Podcast, exploring how science policy and everyday choices shape the health of your brain.

00:00:10: And what you can do.

00:00:24: In today's episode, we are looking into the connection between what you eat and brain health.

00:00:40: Or perhaps What You Eat is Who YOU Are!

00:00:44: We will together explore the term Brain Gut Connection And luckily I have two expert guests in this studio to do so Together with me.

00:00:53: Suzanne Dixon and Hans Turnblom.

00:00:57: Welcome To Both Of You.

00:00:59: Before we enter Into The Field of Nutrition & Brain Health Perhaps you could give a brief introduction of yourselves.

00:01:05: Who are you?

00:01:07: Ladies first, Suzanne!

00:01:09: Hello everyone.

00:01:10: so my name is Suzanne Dixon and I'm a professor in the Department of Physiology at The University of Gothenburg in Sweden.

00:01:20: that's all despite my Scottish origins.

00:01:23: as you may hear My research area is on gut brain signalling by gut hormones.

00:01:29: I'm especially interested in appetite regulation, currently the president of The European Brain Council.

00:01:37: so this is an advocacy and policy organisation which is interested in lobbying for brain health and brain research.

00:01:47: So having you here is like a Columbi egg.

00:01:50: We have both the president of the European Brain Council and also one of the most known researchers in the brain gut field, so that's super!

00:02:00: And then we have a fellow citizen of yours who lives in Sweden but with Swedish accent.

00:02:06: Hans?

00:02:07: Who are

00:02:08: you?!

00:02:08: It was strange coincidence... I'm also living in Gothenburg-Sweden.

00:02:15: gastroenterology at the Department of Internal Medicine, that Salviaska Academy.

00:02:21: It might seem a bit odd to have me as guest in the context.

00:02:25: brain health but I label myself as a neuro-gastroenterologist since my clinical and research practice is focused around disorders or gut-brain interaction group of disorders.

00:02:36: previously was labeled functional gastrointestinal disorders which area where brain health importance and growing understanding.

00:02:47: Among many things my research has focused on the effects of dietary interventions in TGBI, IVS in particular.

00:02:55: And In this context I write a lecture about neuromodulation as it's therapeutic measure in patients with chronic GI symptoms.

00:03:01: I have no pain in particularly relating to my bicycle in the background.

00:03:05: that is one My main interest in how i neuro modulate brain by going back and forth to work, among other things.

00:03:14: So cool it down!

00:03:17: That is a very wise move of you Hans.

00:03:20: And uh...to be physical active?

00:03:21: Of course But the episode in this theme It's about The Brain & The Gut and that wasn't so known many years ago.

00:03:32: but now we see there is connection There.

00:03:35: I thought We go from scratch and let us start with the British author Nigella Lawson, I love her cooking books.

00:03:44: And she long ago published a book How to Eat.

00:03:47: but i think that the eminent question in this episode first is why do we eat?

00:03:53: What's actually the purpose of eating?

00:03:56: has not only the foot but also eat in a different way than our ancestors when they were collecting berries and hunting for mammoths.

00:04:11: Can you say something about that?

00:04:13: Why we eat, how do we eat

00:04:17: today?".

00:04:18: I thought Susanna challenged me on this first!

00:04:21: Well it's a fruity question... Of course we need to sustain life as one of the basic physiological principles which is absolutely necessary.

00:04:34: Our physiology is set up to sustain life.

00:04:36: It provides the energy for all our body processes, you know everything powering the brain and muscles in building repairing tissues.

00:04:46: so we need a constant supply of nutrients.

00:04:49: some we need diverse nutrients In order to maintain natural internal balance For vital functioning.

00:04:59: Regarding how it's changed over time, well I mean of course what our ancestors ate in Nigella is quite right and what we eat today is really quite different.

00:05:10: Our ancestors would have eaten rather opportunistically depending on what food was available And you know they're going between times of famine and feasting by overeating when food becomes available.

00:05:29: And today, of course in our modern lifestyle, food is available.

00:05:33: twenty-four seven and globalization means that we have a huge diversity or nutrients available to us.

00:05:41: the pattern over eating can also be considered because we could decide when we eat.

00:05:46: whereas our ancestors I mean if they find a wild animal then kill it.

00:05:51: That's their main energy source They will overeat store energy for a future famine.

00:05:58: We don't need to do that today, fortunately in the Western world.

00:06:04: but of course things like geography and season ecology you know these impact on how we eat In our modern lifestyle And we need to continually adapt your environment.

00:06:18: You have something to add Hans?

00:06:21: I mean basically what Susanna already said is The important part of it, we eat to survive.

00:06:28: We need energy and building materials... ...to sustain our body and develop as humans.

00:06:34: But I mean also have a humanly unique feature when it comes other species.

00:06:41: that eating has always been far more than biological as well.

00:06:45: It's social bonding thing to do.

00:06:49: Also singles cultural identity rituals pressure Even political expression today, which is not unimportant I would say.

00:06:57: So eating has developed into something completely different to what it used to be like Susanne told us about and even if we have... We've had too much food in most of the world today The diversity of food that we eat has been dramatically reduced And we don't follow these seasonal patterns anymore.

00:07:18: That probably also affects on on our health and in general.

00:07:27: So

00:07:28: the

00:07:28: challenge is that we still have to think about what we need to overeat so as not to fight a future famine, but the famine isn't coming from Western countries yet.

00:07:42: We're having the patterns of our ancestors with completely different options for nutrition.

00:07:48: That's very interesting!

00:07:49: I'm going to delve into it later... The reason that we chose the theme and are so happy to have you with us is that few things create so much emotions, confusions as a term.

00:08:01: You already mentioned it about health diet What's to eat?

00:08:06: We talked about pattern, but what should you eat in order to eat healthy.

00:08:12: And there are so many experts and wannabe experts who claim that they have the truth and their diet is only way for a healthy lifestyle including.

00:08:26: It's quite confusing because there are so many contradictory advices.

00:08:31: You should eat meat, you should eat less meat... No meat!

00:08:36: Fast!

00:08:39: Low-carb!

00:08:42: In your opinion?

00:08:43: Are there any features that aren't controversial which characterise a healthy diet and what are these?

00:08:54: This is a difficult question, it also involves what I said like political aspects and very much.

00:08:59: It's a little bit like religion that there are believers or non-believers in the healthy diet.

00:09:04: And sometimes its very important... Very difficult to leave your standpoint To kill your darling so say.

00:09:11: But if we look upon different definitions of healthy diet as we know for now There're few areas at least some broad principles where i think good agreement both from a scientific, cultural and political point of view.

00:09:27: Like eat mostly minimally processed food, hopefully plant your vegetables in fruits.

00:09:34: Try to minimize the modern type of ultra-processed foods even if it's not generally evidence based recommendation.

00:09:43: I think that is what most people agree on.

00:09:45: Minimize added sugars particularly when it comes to what you drink sugary drinks and eat sufficient amounts of fiber, which I think in industrial countries is one the big problems.

00:10:03: There are several structural problem that make nutritional science these types recommendations genuinely difficult because what we recommend based on mostly observational studies humans at least And it's notoriously difficult to understand what people eat, at least adults.

00:10:22: There is confounding everywhere since healthy eating is almost always associated with other lifestyle measures.

00:10:29: that has effects on health.

00:10:32: Exercise for example and other lifestyle choices.

00:10:36: that affects the outcome of your life.

00:10:41: Suzanne you have something to add?

00:10:44: Well, I wish...I knew what a healthy diet was because i would be implementing it.

00:10:51: But has this quite right?

00:10:54: These are so-called epidemiological studies where you look at very large populations of people and look for evidence that if people tend to eat certain foods then they're healthier.

00:11:07: But there's so many confounding factors like exercise and lifestyle.

00:11:13: If you tend to eat a healthy diet, maybe have other healthy routines but there is the general principle here where we... There are consensus in what should be eating.

00:11:26: I wouldn't like to favour any single diet.

00:11:29: It needs balance on all our essential nutrients mostly on whole or minimally processed foods.

00:11:38: It's not really one magic approach, I mean you hear all these different types of diets like low-carb plant based intermittent fastings and they'll work because usually we're reducing overall the amount of food that we are eating.

00:11:53: but i think it is also an interesting thing.

00:11:57: a related question if your like why is it, although we may have information about what a healthy diet is.

00:12:06: Why don't you implement that?

00:12:08: It might seem so difficult.

00:12:11: and again I would like to come back to our ancestors because of course i wanted to get into the topic of food reward in which we find food rewarding.

00:12:22: if your on a diet or body's craving for food then its gone into starvation.

00:12:30: And then, of course you'll really want to take in the diversity or foods from your environment and take as much food as you can.

00:12:39: In fact part of this is... To find food rewarding means that we get….

00:12:46: We look for foods that we find rewarding.

00:12:48: our ancestors might have been healthy berries other things in the environment that they find rewarding and meat is rewarding if you've not had it, so on.

00:13:00: So finding food's rewarding helps us to go out into our environments and get a variety of nutrients And thats really important for sustaining our nutrition In our modern lifestyle.

00:13:14: Of course The Food industry set up to make as rewarding as they ever can be.

00:13:20: And of course, who wouldn't be tempted by the huge diversity of foods that are available?

00:13:27: It's hard to stick to those diets even with the best intentions.

00:13:33: That's true.

00:13:34: and isn't it also the case that we're very much lured by the combination fat in sugar for instance ?

00:13:41: I mean one thing is many of the things are a variation on the same theme.

00:13:51: So that is what you were talking about Hans, we have diversification in food but still maybe we eat less different due to seasons and so on than we used to because we still... We had access for the same food all year long.

00:14:07: We have strawberries in December!

00:14:10: You don't change as much when you use it too.

00:14:13: But could you say, because I have to admit that and i know it's not good for me so... That advantage as you said of all those bias factors.

00:14:27: concerned about brain health and so on.

00:14:29: So I don't eat croissants to every meal or something, but of course i see how my brain reacts when I go into a bakery And I'm supposed to buy you know bread that is full of grain?

00:14:40: And they have this wonderful smell of butter combined with little note of sugar.

00:14:46: You know Of course My Brain Is Very Much Lured By That!

00:14:49: If I had the free choice and not be conscious...I would love To Buy That But adjust myself and regulate it.

00:14:59: And I also found the pleasure in eating a high-grain bread, but isn't that something we have... In our brains there's this sort of pattern where certain combinations are especially full calories due to avert the famine attempting us?

00:15:19: –I really don't know the answer.

00:15:20: if they're in our brain are in that direction.

00:15:25: And when it comes to what defines healthy eating today, I think if you were just give one advice... ...that probably would have a good effect on large part of the population is do not overeat!

00:15:43: Many dietary advices given today are too technical and misses out basic aspects that in the end it relates to, so we eat a bit too much reflected also and in growing problem with obesity.

00:16:02: So I mean this simple context is often not sexy enough for people.

00:16:10: you need to eat less.

00:16:11: like i said the croissant is good but you can stick one croissant perhaps every day even if

00:16:21: That's

00:16:22: true.

00:16:23: I also think that it is important to say to people if you buy unhealthy food, If you buy a lot of chocolate and have them stored in your home or sweets so whatever You're more prone to eat them!

00:16:43: important to control what you eat.

00:16:45: But I wanted to come back a little bit, the sugar fat question because here's the thing we have butter in our fridge.

00:16:55: We could take it out of the fridge but how many of us find ourselves with a spoon or knife cutting into the butter and stuffing?

00:17:05: And the same is true of sugar cubes.

00:17:07: You know, you go to get yourself a cup of coffee in the lunch room and there's a bowl of sugarcube sitting there.

00:17:16: who of us decides oh I would love to have a sugar cube?

00:17:22: There something about combining fat and sugar that increases the palatability.

00:17:28: then if you add things like cocoa perfect mixture that just, you know what do you say dissolves in your mouth at thirty seven degrees centigrade?

00:17:40: Your body's temperature and gives a really rewarding experience.

00:17:46: You know we blame the food industry but they're clever!

00:17:49: They know how to make that...that perfect mixture.

00:17:52: And I was once involved in a project where i had the opportunity To meet people from the Food Industry.

00:18:00: They're putting things in our diet to make it, you know very... Make it more palatable and make us consume more.

00:18:10: But I think is the combination this my conclusion.

00:18:14: And on top of fat and sugar and cocoa You can add salt!

00:18:17: Who doesn't love these ice creams that have salt added To them or chocolate with salt added?

00:18:24: So they figured out what's most rewarding for us And they heavily market it.

00:18:31: Of course, why wouldn't?

00:18:33: Yeah I can add on to that there...I mean also had contacts with the food industry and then i mean They have a genuine problem as uh..i mean as companies That has to make profit.

00:18:46: We've got contacts where one of large yogurt producers in the world And i mean they genuinely wanted To shift a bit when comes come When came to sugar content in their yogurts.

00:18:58: So they had a low sugar yogurt provided, but then have to take it out of the market.

00:19:04: It didn't sell!

00:19:05: People didn't buy even if they advertised and said that this is more healthy yoghurt compared with other one.

00:19:13: They say we do has problem.

00:19:16: That's

00:19:18: really interesting

00:19:19: yeah?

00:19:20: Of course as you are saying Susanne... consumer behavior.

00:19:25: It's all those combinations that we sort of love to eat, and it is also the industry taking advantage of neuroscience and expertise in your field... ...and creating these things which are going to be very intrigued by not only easy-to-swallow but also the sound it makes….

00:19:46: …the familiarity or consistency so on.

00:19:50: There are many things to fight in order to sustain a healthy lifestyle and not to overeat, for instance.

00:19:57: But I wanted to discuss with you because I'm an neurologist... ...and i know what would I define as a healthy brain?

00:20:05: That means the brain that is effective in your daily life so that you can do your job or hobbies but it's actually a healthy gut!

00:20:16: in your opinion, and when does a gut become unhealthy if we can say it that way?

00:20:22: What kind of problems are arising then.

00:20:25: And

00:20:26: why

00:20:27: could you dare to say something about that

00:20:30: Hans?

00:20:33: I mean there all key characteristics over healthy guts That should be present.

00:20:38: If just go for the whole topic now is microbial diversity which seems One of the aspects that is associated with a healthy gut, you actually have high microbial diversity.

00:20:55: Where the gut in itself has function to create stability and resilience... ...to change short-term insults does not affect long term stability of gut functions From this point on next level it's also intact gut barrier function, which is something that I mean there's a lot of fuss about leaky gut and so on.

00:21:22: And many people really do not understand the gut should be leaky otherwise we would not survive.

00:21:29: but scientific discussion are instances where an increased leakage actually creates problem in long run or perhaps an insult with brief situation.

00:21:42: more leakiness can act activate immunological and humoral activities.

00:21:48: that creates a problem in the long run.

00:21:50: So, an intact gut barrier function is probably also of importance... And it's also the immune system!

00:21:56: A large part or largest part of your body's immune system resides along with gut lining.

00:22:02: I mean the gut is more-or less an impagination on your outside.

00:22:06: As long as something still inside you're gut.

00:22:09: It actually not INSIDE YOU.

00:22:11: It just passing through which is a mind-boggling situation.

00:22:16: So I mean the immune system and there you can say that the stability of the immune activity, i wouldn't say inflammatory state but the immune activities should be stable over time and react.

00:22:28: consequently when you have some kind of intruder and then behave well in between so some kind And I mean also other factors like the motor function, things needs to go through your bowels.

00:22:44: That is such a basic thing with neuromuscular diseases in the gut where you actually get symptoms of stagnation ileas more or less even if we don't have mechanical problem and need good propagating activity going on in our bowels which creates stable environmental milieu that create the foundation for health.

00:23:11: That's

00:23:12: very true.

00:23:13: and that is if you're constipated, what your having in your gut isn't pasaging then of course it can get unhealthy.

00:23:21: But its good to bring this up because constipation actually Is not a marker on something A disease state through cells connected with different healthcare outcomes.

00:23:37: It's more something that creates, it affects your quality of life for many people but is actually not causing a stagnation.

00:23:45: That has significant impact on our health as we can see in epidemiology and so on if you have constipation which most often is related to the colon Which is important from an nutritional point-of view But doesn't mean that your small bowel has any problems with digesting or absorbing.

00:24:05: Many people with constipation actually have a major problem with letting go.

00:24:11: Not for part of the passage through the bowel, when you had your bowel movement to be able to coordinate an increase in abdominal pressure by straining and at the same time relaxation alongside your rectum.

00:24:31: And that is something most of us, we don't need to think about it.

00:24:34: but if you're constipated You'd lose the coordination also as part.

00:24:39: So its very troublesome being constipating no doubt on this But not dangerous in a sense.

00:24:44: many patients think or fear there are toxins gathering like that.

00:24:51: That was very comforting and definitely an argument for treating constipation through fibre and so on, but it's not dangerous.

00:25:02: So that is nice for me in the listeners to know.

00:25:05: Susan what does a healthy gut do you?

00:25:09: Well yeah I have to put my personal hat rather than my expert hats here And i suppose um...I learned alot about the fiber of diet which was super good.

00:25:22: Probably it plays a role in, well the scientific evidence I think supports its role and supporting this healthy gut microbiota.

00:25:34: And of course helps with all the issues that we've been hearing about related to constipation.

00:25:41: A healthy gut you would like to think is one which supports brain function.

00:25:46: I think this is an open door to try and understand how a healthy gut impacts on mood, cognition or well-being.

00:26:00: There's a lot of research going in that field.

00:26:04: My Gut In my Lab is all about producing hormones.

00:26:09: We shouldn't forget it as important to have good balance.

00:26:16: you have to realize that in your day, you eat several meals and you nibble between meals.

00:26:24: The biggest controller of that is the hormones we produce from different parts of our gut telling us it's time for food or stop eating... you know, just in between meals.

00:26:39: I'm not terribly hungry right now but so i'm satiated and this is all controlled by your gut.

00:26:45: So if you have a good what do you say?

00:26:47: crosstalk?

00:26:48: Between these hormones that you're continually producing different points in your day according to your meals.

00:26:56: it has them in balance as really important.

00:27:00: In this podcast we challenged our experts do some myth-busting.

00:27:07: And especially in this field, as we already discussed there are plenty of myths about fantastic diets or things you could do.

00:27:15: I mean... You can just eat an avocado a day and suddenly have the IQ of Nobel Prize winner.

00:27:21: all these things!

00:27:22: And i invite to bust a myth with me Or break up with a misconception.

00:27:35: Would you share something with the listeners and say, this is commonly spread?

00:27:40: And it's not true.

00:27:42: Don't believe in hype!

00:27:43: Well then... In my clinical area of expertise one other I would say that is also adopted by many clinicians today.

00:27:57: It's a scientific argument going on or more-or less war when it comes to the clinical implications of our microbiota composition in small bowel.

00:28:09: When I studied medicine, we learned about small intestinal bacterial overgrowth which is a true phenomenon that you actually can have.

00:28:18: situations where you contract disease from having too many microorganisms on your small bowel but still related with severe problems actually can make that happen, like having a stricture or having severe neuromuscular disease which makes things not being able to go through with the correct speed.

00:28:41: That bacterial growth could work on there.

00:28:45: but what is very popular today is to be treated for SIBO.

00:28:50: I think it's different in countries and this concept we have lot of learn about.

00:28:56: i'm not convinced that should call it SIBO.

00:29:00: There are probably variations in gut microbiota balance that might be of interest.

00:29:05: We don't know if it's a cause or an effect, and the way now is diagnosed by having different types of carbohydrates ingested And watch how much hydrogen or methane that is exhaled through your mouth Is actually not good when you're diagnosing.

00:29:24: It's originally measure of transit time.

00:29:28: If you have a carbohydrate that you don't digest, it travels through your gut and reaches the colon.

00:29:36: And when it reaches the column... ...a lot of fermentation will be going on from your gut microbiota in the colon.. ..and we'll produce hydrogen methane!

00:29:45: We won't produce them ourselves if we don't consider the microbiota as part of our cells which probably should but its a microbiota production.

00:29:53: so use measure for transit to say bacterial overgrocer, your sport power.

00:29:59: And you treat these patients with antibiotics to large extent as well and I think that is a major mistake we are making today.

00:30:08: so i would say SIBO as clinical diagnosis definitely used in the dangerous way right now.

00:30:16: if had other colleagues sitting beside me ,I'd be contested by wrong but safety part of being a doctor, not harming.

00:30:27: I think we're doing stupid things when it comes to this right now in parts

00:30:31: of the world.

00:30:32: Could you just say again what SIBO stands for?

00:30:35: Small intestinal bacterial overgrowth and that is also... From my point of view most patients who ask me about that they have IBs or similar problems, irritable bowel syndrome.

00:30:47: but it's used as an intuitive explanation treated like chronic fatigue being some kind of blurry sensation in your head or looking for explanations, difficult to treat pressure and so on.

00:31:01: And I think it's a major mistake to translate what we know today when it comes to microbiota composition and things that can be understood if they are caused by an effect.

00:31:13: So this episode is about the bacteria in small bowel which causes The problems, and at least I think you are having an extremely important point.

00:31:24: We have so much problem in the world with antibiotic resistance for infections that are life-threatening... ...and we will not be able to treat it because we've got so resistant to treatment available!

00:31:39: So be careful about what we're treating with antibiotics especially if bacteria as you say is... hours and probably not something strange, so that was a very wise thing.

00:31:51: I can just add on a minor thing there.

00:31:53: it's not only how we treat but also you give the patient a concept of disease that perhaps is wrong.

00:32:01: You're explaining their symptoms with With something that actually is not true.

00:32:07: It's also something that is important That they shouldn't label a patient with a diagnosis or an explanation if you don't have better evidence for that actually being true, because having too many bacteria in your bowels sounds really dangerous.

00:32:22: Yeah it sounds scary!

00:32:24: That's unlike like Indian, you know?

00:32:26: It is due to the fact...that they should use it.

00:32:29: I would be scared if someone said this to me.

00:32:31: If i was...I'd

00:32:32: extremely scared and I wouldn't be able to do all of these.

00:32:36: What is your favorite myth to bust on this episode?

00:32:39: So we're

00:32:40: gonna move onto the breed okay so it's quite common.

00:32:44: you commonly read in the press that food is addictive and people are addicted to foods.

00:32:51: And so I've really been involved with research projects looking into this, what i can say?

00:33:00: there no single ingredient or combination of ingredients.

00:33:07: I'm not even caffeine by the way, although it's often thought to be addictive.

00:33:13: That induces addiction?

00:33:15: Okay so let's not say that food is causing people to be addicted to it which would be a bit like chemical addiction.

00:33:24: What we can see and what do observe in certain individuals suffer from severe obesity for example binge eating disorder a behavioral addiction, something more aligned to gambling or some other types of addiction.

00:33:45: A computer addiction and so it's a behavioural disorder really in that case.

00:33:53: but most people who claim to be food addicted are not actually food addicts.

00:33:57: And the reason is also partly when you start applying all those criteria for addiction such as alcohol addiction when you start to, things like... You develop tolerance over time and you crave.

00:34:15: It's not really ...you can't show that those exist for food.

00:34:20: but on the other hand what we can say is that food is rewarding And there's a biological reason for it be rewarding.

00:34:29: But doesn't mean if you get addicted.

00:34:31: I mean, it would be very detrimental to life because we'd all become addicted to food.

00:34:39: What we do find is food pleasurable and the downside of that is eating in excess can be abused a way to cope with stress or make people feel better.

00:34:54: but now were going into the realm of psychiatry for sure there's and psychiatrists in helping people who have these kinds of eating disorders, what would you say?

00:35:09: Addictive behaviour towards food.

00:35:11: But let's not blame the food.

00:35:13: I think it is pretty difficult to see that food makes you addicted to it.

00:35:17: Yeah so food isn't an addictive substance itself but i think its very important to establish of physical exercise as well, because physical exercise is good for you.

00:35:33: But sometimes people solve their problems or use it as a way off getting away from other more difficult aspects and then overtraining can also be very harmful.

00:35:46: Very nice!

00:35:47: That was quite interesting.

00:35:49: I can't avoid when i have to experts on the podcast and when we are talking about brain health, gut and so on.

00:35:57: To ask you what do YOU do in order have a healthy diet or better brain health?

00:36:07: We obviously see enhanced office.

00:36:12: so and as you said Hans, You do a lot of exercise but are there other things that in specific take care off?

00:36:21: In your daily life.

00:36:24: That would say this for my health or brain health.

00:36:27: yeah I try to follow the general concepts Of what is told in Sweden As being a general good nutritional lifestyle To having three regular meals.

00:36:41: Sit down and have the meal try to have a meal together with someone so that So you actually put on your knife or fork?

00:36:49: And talk to each other during the meal not eating too fast in order To be able to feel when you're full before, but my biggest life hack When it comes this is probably mine morning.

00:37:01: My breakfast having oatmeal porridge.

00:37:04: If you're a young age and I mean that was just it wasn't due to any health reason when i started out with It but, I mean old meat porridge is probably very good way To start your day.

00:37:15: When if You want to have at least big chunk of Your fiber needs available already from the start Of The Day With A Good Soluble Fiber Which All Same People Who Have Troubles With A Lot Of Symptoms From Their Bows.

00:37:29: Don't They Accept It More Often That More Like the insult fibers.

00:37:36: But I would say that, The way you eat is the social circumstance eating and trying to not fast this problem in my life.

00:37:48: So i think a lot about what how much i eat?

00:37:53: And i really struggle with getting enough protein.

00:37:58: And that's particularly bad because I also try to exercise, and I know it is really important... ...to keep your protein in take-up.

00:38:08: But what i've noticed you notice being on a permanent diet.. ..is absolutely miserable.

00:38:13: when those monks used to sort of thrash themselves on their back.

00:38:18: Being one of them every time they eat something bad.... ....I feel like oh I shouldn't have eaten that!

00:38:22: As an adult I tend to think well I should really more adopt the French attitude, which is that treats are okay.

00:38:32: You should be allowed treat sometimes.

00:38:35: Don't feel bad about it but don't eat them all the time.

00:38:39: Another hack for me as portion size because when first started living with my husband and we had a young family... ...I always put food on the table so people could have this much they want which was all right for my skinny husband, but I think i started to overeat.

00:38:59: What I do is actually put the food on a plate in the kitchen and then bring it to the table.

00:39:04: let anyone who wants to eat more go back into the kitchen if they want it.

00:39:09: And I think for me portion size is really very important To realise how much I need.

00:39:20: I'm full now, i don't actually need more.

00:39:22: I would only be eating because I like it not because I needed my basic principle.

00:39:27: and here in Sweden we're quite lucky as has mentioned that the traditional sort of Swedish food is called sorry to introduce swedish but who's man's cost?

00:39:39: yeah yeah yeah traditional way of eating.

00:39:43: And you know, it's either.

00:39:44: You've got your potatoes and you've got some green or vegetables on your plate and you have protein usually with a little bit of sauce on to make it palatable.

00:39:54: I mean that kind of eating is pretty healthy probably what we in our regular diet at home switching between meat fish chicken and seafood which absolutely wonderful.

00:40:06: on the west coast of Sweden

00:40:10: We got some Swedish advertisement there as well, I think that's good.

00:40:13: And thank you for sharing this and it was very valuable advice... ...and what you were saying Hans is not too complicated neither what you are saying or Suzanne.

00:40:26: It's doable because some of the diets that are commercially advertised are very complicated.

00:40:33: People just can't follow them.

00:40:35: But we're slowly summing up a bit.

00:40:39: The last challenge for you, because we are talking much about the individual perspective.

00:40:44: But I also would like to know if society... If politicians government and so on where to make decisions that would influence brain health and gut health in a positive way?

00:41:00: What should they do?

00:41:01: have one suggestion?

00:41:09: Well, I would have to put on two hats here again and i'll have two points.

00:41:13: What is my hat as European Brain Council President where we're continually lobbying for brain health and brain research?

00:41:21: And the cost of society not having healthy brains... ...is very severe!

00:41:30: In fact what we need it's be able treat people better And therefore, I think any investment that is made in research will absolutely pay off in the long term.

00:41:43: There's so much we have to learn about the brain and how nutrition shapes it...

00:41:48: What would you say to the Swedish government or through EU?

00:41:52: You should do this in order to promote.

00:41:56: I think there are some tough political decisions to be made where we as professionals also need to provide them with the fundamental that support these types of tough political decisions.

00:42:11: And I think, as exemplified by Susanne when it comes to behaviors and so on.

00:42:16: our behaviours are very much related also to cost.

00:42:21: That is unfortunately one of the ways we need to address how to eat healthier than they actually should pay off.

00:42:30: But it should be a bit more expensive to make choices that we for now know is less healthy than those are healthy.

00:42:40: I mean, we have neighboring countries where they have taxes on soda, for example, for lemonade and so on... That if there's sugary drinks you actually get an extra tax on them And these are the way of diverting people Better food choices, even if it's not very popular.

00:42:59: That's the problem.

00:43:01: I think that's a basic thing that we could give advice about but you also need to provide politicians with good evidence for doing that because they will get A lot of bad publicity from Doing It and then We Need To Support them.

00:43:15: That's true

00:43:16: Suzanne.

00:43:18: Yes actually that touched on.

00:43:20: my second point is Of course to lobby against pricing and cost of unhealthy food.

00:43:28: I mean, you know we haven't lived in America but what you see is really that poor income families are eating a lot of fast-foods and ready prepared foods And there's very simple things they can be done to improve this kind of behaviour In young children.

00:43:49: You could teach them how the healthy diet would look like.

00:43:52: How To Cook You know, and you can give healthy choices in the canteen.

00:43:58: And again, in Sweden we do that to children are often offered vegetables and salad is the first thing they have to put on their plate as they're queuing up for lunch queue.

00:44:09: then they can supplement with it The rest of foods available.

00:44:14: I mean there has been experiments different countries taxing fat.

00:44:18: I heard I know that it was actually quite successful, but for some reason the government...I'm sorry.

00:44:26: The government abandoned and is probably due to industry pressures from food industries.

00:44:36: so there's a lot can be done here.

00:44:39: politicians need evidence proving healthy diet good brain health or health.

00:44:49: It is actually incredibly difficult as we've discussed today.

00:44:52: And I think the more that scientists can have an opportunity through improved research opportunities to explore this, it's actually the only way ahead.

00:45:03: so i come back then To my first point.

00:45:05: We need more funding for understanding The research into nutrition and health and brain health.

00:45:13: So to sum up money isn't issue here?

00:45:17: both in brain health and also in brain gut connection, and in gut health.

00:45:23: Price matters.

00:45:24: if you're supposed to take the wise choices then you can't have chips much cheaper than apples for instance because that's the way it is.

00:45:33: we need to nudge people To make wise choices

00:45:37: And

00:45:37: We need to support them.

00:45:39: those of us who are on the medical community In different positions Need to support Both Those Who Are Going Take The unpleasant decisions like putting taxes on lemonade.

00:45:52: Thank

00:45:52: you very

00:45:52: much

00:45:53: for being in this podcast, Suzanne Dixon and Hans Tornblom.

00:45:57: I really learned a lot!

00:45:58: And also your way of presenting not only the guts but connection between brain and gut society, the individual perspective and also what we should not continue to do.

00:46:19: I thank you then again for joining us on The Brain Health Mission podcast and also to the listeners both of who follow us on a regular basis and also the listeners that are new!

00:46:31: And i hope you enjoyed this episode as much as i did... ...and i uh hope that you will follow us from your preferred podcast platform Share it with your network and stay tuned for more exciting conversations on brain health themes.

00:46:46: There are more to come!

00:46:47: Thank you very much.

00:47:12: Until next time,

00:47:14: take care of your brain.

00:47:15: It's the only one you've got!