A Guided Tour of the Brain—How It Works and How to Keep It Healthy

00:00:03: Welcome to the Brain Health Mission Podcast, exploring how science

00:00:07: policy

00:00:07: and everyday choices shape the health of your brain.

00:00:10: And what you can do.

00:00:30: Welcome as a listener, we hope you will find something to enjoy and I am at least looking very much forward to this episode which is going to be an episode that will introduce you to the concept brain.

00:00:46: And as our guide We have The Fantastic Kajanorengen A colleague from Norway who has written many books on the theme and who also is a very dedicated knowledgist.

00:01:02: Welcome to Oskaja!

00:01:03: Thank you very much Janna, it's great to be here

00:01:06: So happy to have you as well And we would of course like jump right at the brain.

00:01:11: but before we go into the brain You will guide us through different structures.

00:01:16: Can you guide us little bit through Kaya?

00:01:19: Who are you?

00:01:20: Why so interested in the brain?

00:01:23: Yes...

00:01:25: I am a senior consultant in neurology at Oslo University Hospital and i'm working as the movement disorder unit.

00:01:33: So many of my patients have Parkinson's disease or other conditions that affect both moment and thinking, And also neuroscientists.

00:01:45: so im leading the translational neurodegeneration group Oslo University Hospital and the University of Oslo, where we try to understand what goes wrong in the brain for patients with Parkinson's disease or Alzheimer's disease.

00:02:01: How could be detected earlier?

00:02:04: using spinal fluid blood biomarkers stem cells even?

00:02:10: I'm also an associate professor at the Department of Pharmacy.

00:02:15: I'm teaching brain anatomy and as you said, like to write about the brain also for general public.

00:02:24: And when you ask why am i interested in the brain is of course... The brain is essentially us right?

00:02:32: So it's kind-of the brain.

00:02:34: what makes UU a really CAO or body core?

00:02:41: who we are?

00:02:42: I sometimes when people ask me why are you so interested in the brain?

00:02:46: And i say, Why shouldn't die.

00:02:49: Exactly!

00:02:51: Of all of your reasons for saying that's true You do a fantastic work and it is hard to believe that day has twenty four hours for us as well.

00:03:04: We have

00:03:06: invited you on this podcast because we know like it and also we know that you can, is to take us a little bit through the brain.

00:03:16: To describe to us where and what to see or want to learn in the brain?

00:03:22: And could you please tell us first of all What Is The Brain?

00:03:26: Yeah so I started out with saying That Brain is actually the self-what makes you.

00:03:32: You are the CEO Of The Body.

00:03:36: So the brain consists Roughly, we would say.

00:03:40: the brain stem is a smaller part called cerebellum and larger parts of our brain where we have outer parts which are important for how we think or organize thoughts.

00:03:52: And deeper parts that are more organizational inputs.

00:03:57: so I'd like to point out everything you think feel remember also do And, yeah.

00:04:10: So it's this organ we have in the cranium one and a half kilos an eighty six billion neurons which connects to thousands of others.

00:04:22: so It's both where they thought starts and ends mm-hmm.

00:04:28: It's The first.

00:04:30: its first job is to keep us alive right?

00:04:33: And then the second is to make sense of them all around us.

00:04:37: So I think it's important to know that... ...it doesn't just receive the world passively, but constantly predicts what will happen next and build our experience of reality.

00:04:52: That is true!

00:04:53: It gives signals and takes signals And actually i think its quite interesting is actually quite little, it's small.

00:05:02: And sometimes when I ask pupils in schools after having told them how fantastic It Is i say How much do you think it weighs?

00:05:10: and they say You know eight kilo.

00:05:13: and I'm like no Because he so fantastic but what it is its So crowded!

00:05:18: That why Its only one point five because we wouldn't be able of course to carry a kilo around.

00:05:23: that would very much much there, and it's so important to us as you say.

00:05:28: It is crucial for our life.

00:05:30: but if we like save few and me We were tiny small And we would be put into a cranium?

00:05:38: And then we would wander along the brain.

00:05:42: What do we see if we started liking front hair You know

00:05:46: yeah.

00:05:46: So if he started in the front we would see directly too for the cortex, they're kind of out to surface on their brain.

00:05:54: So that's actually where we have... And in front part of our brains is what we look upon as a personality and how we organise speech some other functions related with others and also control our emotions.

00:06:18: So, but when we're just walking there.

00:06:21: We wouldn't see these functions of course from the surface.

00:06:26: so The surface would be then this kind of roughly outer layer gray matter Or it's named grey matter in a living brain.

00:06:36: It will be pink Yeah And pulsating.

00:06:41: even so we would have this pink pulsating Roughly surface which is and restarting in the front, it will be kind of core self when speaking about... the self, and then while we were if we were walking them along the surface towards the back of the brain.

00:07:03: Then-and then The big part of the Brain has its own space within the cranium.

00:07:08: And If We want to walk Towards the small Part Of the Brain the cerebellum?

00:07:13: We could squeeze next To the brainstem and then we can see the Cerebellum reveal itself and it looks so different from the larger part of The Brain.

00:07:23: When I say larger part, I mean in volume.

00:07:26: Because if we were talking about actual neurons it's actually the small parts of this cerebellum that has the most neurons and yeah... It really is so beautiful!

00:07:41: And when a cross-section of the cerebellums looks like an old oak tree ...and even called the Tree Of Life or Auroborovita And I think cerebellum is really kind of understudied.

00:07:57: So we talk about cerebellums as fine-tuning our movements, but... We started out talking about the functions on very front, the prefrontal part in the cortex and actually it's very much overlapping with the function of the cerebellumb that less studied.

00:08:18: so its not just movement at all It also how to regulate emotions.

00:08:24: So it's like a backup, you would say because this is very interesting and its not known Because we know that for instance teenagers they are heavily constructed in the frontal lobe during adolescence That there is construction site And actually can see quite thin what is dominating In the juvenile years.

00:08:45: all of these things You have whole life span In just one day, you remember it was going from a height to low and then up again.

00:08:55: And so on whereas the consequence thinking in the way to administer yourself we thought was all in the frontal lobe.

00:09:02: but your saying that the brain has sort of back-up plan in this cerebellum?

00:09:06: Yes!

00:09:07: So I would love for future study even more That we could learn about how the Cerebellum works How functions help us function too.

00:09:18: So I know that many of the patients, when they are after a stroke and the cerebellum is able to move like before.

00:09:28: I would be happy for them but often have additional points in their lists where you feel it's different after the strokes still.

00:09:38: That sounds

00:09:38: interesting!

00:09:40: So Cerebellum definitely is place to be further discovered.

00:09:48: I think that if we, you and me were to go on the surface of the brain.

00:09:53: We probably would need rubber boots because it will be wet wouldn't?

00:09:57: Yes!

00:09:58: It would... And That's very fascinating Because If anyone has ever hauled a human brain it does not have they..it feels different than in living skulls right.

00:10:11: So its really...It is vet.

00:10:13: so we have spinal fluid around it.

00:10:18: go and explore the deeper part of the brain without surgical tools even.

00:10:24: Just using their hands, you know?

00:10:26: Yes!

00:10:27: Which is a bit intriguing but also a bit... I would say ghastly.

00:10:31: right it's okay It's structure isn't it?

00:10:35: because

00:10:37: yeah we talked about this tent that kind of protects the cerebellum actually also protecting from the weight of the larger part of the brain.

00:10:48: So you it's not squeezed, but has its own room down there.

00:10:54: When I was in medical school, that's quite amazing actually because it seems how much we have discovered.

00:11:01: That is long ago though but then we learned the cerebral fluid only to ensure you didn't lose neurons when shaking your head like this or

00:11:13: there.

00:11:16: sort of a fluid protection between the cranium and brain.

00:11:23: the spinal, the cerebrospinal fluid is also in a way cleaning your brain during the night.

00:11:28: I find that extremely

00:11:31: interesting!

00:11:37: would expect that brain anatomy, that settled.

00:11:40: That we've known for hundreds of years but it's not completely true.

00:11:44: so still learn new facets the brain anatomy and as you said in the textbook still its written that is produced within these holes ventricles within the brain.

00:11:59: then it circulate on the outer side of the brain to the blood through venous sinuses in the dura, the meninges.

00:12:12: But then as you said it was first proven in twenty twelve that in mice first than that the cerebrospinal fluid and brain is not too strictly separate rooms anymore.

00:12:27: So, we now know that the cerebrospinal fluid follows penetrating arteries into the brain in the perivascular space and then from there it can enters the brain parenchyba.

00:12:41: And...and then we have this exchange between the extracellular fluid between our brain cells and the CSF as you say could wash through the brain and remove Waste.

00:12:55: So it's not only a surface cleaning, but also in the tissue.

00:12:59: I think that is very interesting.

00:13:01: It

00:13:03: has been proven in humans too.

00:13:05: now

00:13:05: Yes!

00:13:07: That shows why its so important.

00:13:10: we sleep long enough Because when you wash your bath If you do this for half an hour It won't be much cleaning, it will perhaps smell a little better but its not cleaning in depth.

00:13:22: If you do this for couple of hours the result is something else.

00:13:26: and that's because when we sleep then probably have these washing things going on.

00:13:32: And also duration of wash is important to prevent further disease.

00:13:38: That needs to be researched upon more.

00:13:41: Yeah,

00:13:43: so we don't know that much about if it's the same whole truth for humans but... We would expect to be preserved.

00:13:52: So really both are very interesting and of course as medical doctors working night shifts might be a bit scary too,

00:14:05: but we shouldn't scare people on this podcast.

00:14:07: We are in the motivation to take care of your brain so we won't scare you and we had a sleep expert here saying that one bad night won't affect you.

00:14:18: So it's... The many bad nights that are bad for you In life span.

00:14:24: as you say doctors, nurses People working night shift is more vulnerable perhaps to not have enough cleaning of their brain but you can also do other things that might in a little bit compensate for that.

00:14:40: But then again, You shouldn't sleep very short and smoke and drink alcohol And go on an e-scooter without the helmet.

00:14:48: That's

00:14:49: true!

00:14:49: It is

00:14:51: the sum of all the factors.

00:14:53: But Kaja we all realize brain enthusiast.

00:14:57: And that is so cool to listen too, but what's the favorite part of the brain for you?

00:15:02: You're already a little bit of cerebellum.

00:15:04: maybe it was a spoiler...

00:15:09: No actually we have just walked on the brain surface.

00:15:15: So I would like to talk about a region We do not see from the surface at all and And it actually fits perfectly into your comment about sleep, because Lucas Sirulius which means the blue spot is a really thin but quite long structure that we have within the brainstem.

00:15:41: It's kind of the hotspot for norepinephrine or noradrenaline gives noradrenaline to the entire brain, and it's really important for regulating sleep.

00:15:56: And also activation of us in our brain... I have two reasons for loving Lucaserilius.

00:16:07: For one its very first place that we see changes in both Alzheimer's disease and Parkinson's disease often many years before the symptoms.

00:16:19: And that makes it a kind of an early warning system, finding that early window is exactly what we try to do in research... ...and second actually coupled with brain clearance as you mentioned And that's only shown for rodents so far, but it seems like

00:16:43: a really deep

00:16:44: sleep.

00:16:45: It is where the brain clears out waste products and then we see these slow waves of noradrenaline from this little blue spot, Lucasirulius helps drive that cleaning.

00:16:57: So its'a structure I'm sure many might not have heard about actually links attention and sleep, in the end brain health too.

00:17:10: That is very intriguing!

00:17:11: When we are having experts here on the podcast... We also use a possibility to bust myths.

00:17:18: And one of things that I'm very annoyed about because you see it now-and-then You can even hear this sometimes on radio Some people are claiming that we only use ten percent of our brain at a time.

00:17:37: And usually they do that in order to promote their products or the vitamins, so if you would like to use them probably use twenty per cent.

00:17:47: but I say it's not true!

00:17:50: You agree

00:17:50: with me?

00:17:51: Yes... I agree with you both agreeing that it's not true and agreeing.

00:17:56: That is really annoying So but yeah, as he said It's a really stubborn myth so that we hear from time to time still And thats To me its not even logical for us to believe in this myth.

00:18:15: We would have ninety percent of the brain that would use energy... ...and that we wouldn't need care about just be lying there unused, which is of course not the case.

00:18:26: No I think also we wouldn't carry around a brain that would only use ten percent!

00:18:32: The body wouldn't bother with it.

00:18:35: We need

00:18:36: to

00:18:36: run fast from the tigers or whatever so... So i agree and you must say if you agree.

00:18:46: but some people claim this because sometimes under stress and you don't remember the birthday of your aunt or something like that, but it's because The brain is also focusing on what seems to be the most important now.

00:19:03: And maybe that isn't a birthday over Aunt But it's where you're going to cook for dinner.

00:19:08: So we are there.

00:19:11: I'm not everything that comes to our conscience Because the brain is all so quite selective and sometimes You don't feel too big part of that selection.

00:19:20: information.

00:19:22: Yes, that's very much true.

00:19:24: And in several aspects too.

00:19:26: so I think on one part it is important to remember that memory isn't kind of a video recording.

00:19:34: we could push play and it will look the same every time.

00:19:39: So everytime we recall something brain actually have to rebuild it.

00:19:44: That why memories can change over time while two people might not even remember thing.

00:19:51: and the other part you said is also very important, it's that our brain selects what to show us in our awareness.

00:20:02: What we are aware of?

00:20:03: It kind of selects which stimuli things.

00:20:12: but in general we should be really glad that we have this function intact because it really helps us organize the world around others.

00:20:22: Yeah, that's true.

00:20:23: so we just boosted that myth for now forever!

00:20:27: We hope and probably will meet

00:20:29: again

00:20:30: you do not use only ten percent of your brain.

00:20:33: You used your whole brain a whole time.

00:20:35: But you probably use different parts.

00:20:37: And as you say memory is not an exact science.

00:20:41: You can remember one thing and then you can forget another, And also remember it differently every time.

00:20:48: That's true!

00:20:49: When we have an expert such as Yukaya It is good to be able To ask if he could explain difficult things for us.

00:20:58: One of the things that Alessandro was asking about Is The Noble Price Of This Year Which was really... Yes?

00:21:07: I said We're going to Ask Kaya About That.

00:21:10: It was given in brain science, it was given... ...in the field of optogenetics.

00:21:17: Could you

00:21:18: say a little

00:21:19: bit about that?

00:21:20: I know you have been researching a little!

00:21:22: Yeah so yes there was very well-deserved price.

00:21:27: There were tools we now have in neuroscience which really help us move from just watching to actually testing.

00:21:38: The Nobel Prize winner gave us essentially a light switch for nerve cells.

00:21:44: So the start of that story is actually somewhat surprising because it starts in green algae, so its this single cell algae that swim towards lights and two researchers Hegeman and Agu showed.

00:22:06: They showed which protein that works as a channel in the cell membrane and when light hits it, It's open.

00:22:15: And let's charge particles

00:22:17: flow-in.".

00:22:18: Then another group, Deserot I think is pronounced, they put gene for this protein into nerve cells.

00:22:29: Suddenly then... ...they could make these cells fire just by shining blue light on them, and that in millisecond precision even.

00:22:42: And then we suddenly had a tool where you could switch cells off into the living brain.

00:22:50: Why is it important to be able to switch often?

00:22:57: Before I could see an area lit up when animals were afraid or hungry but now ask whether these cells actually cause fear or hunger, so we could then as I mentioned move it from watching to testing.

00:23:15: Exactly!

00:23:17: It's interesting.

00:23:17: and for people with epilepsy that might be interesting in order to detect where are your cramps coming from?

00:23:27: What kind of center is causing the cramps?

00:23:32: because sometimes Easy if you have an injury or somewhere.

00:23:36: You had a stroke and your possibility to develop epilepsy in space later In life is higher, but sometimes we don't know the neurologist and we like detectives lost And then I could be interested.

00:23:49: yeah very interesting.

00:23:51: so green out Yeah, and them to the brain

00:23:55: Yes, and as he said this kind of it's one thing It's gonna.

00:23:59: where does it start?

00:24:03: subgroup level.

00:24:04: We could look, is it kind of too less?

00:24:08: Gabba?

00:24:08: or Is It Too Much?

00:24:10: Glidimate we can switch on and off different subgroups of neurons even to come closer.

00:24:18: what's the actual cause in this case?

00:24:20: but I have to say that its has not moved into living human brain quite yet.

00:24:28: Hi are you as i said been writing a few very, very good books or not a few but you're remarking.

00:24:35: Very Good Books we have to say and You've influenced the lives of many of your readers And me also.

00:24:43: after I read one of your books i try To brush my teeth with My left hand.

00:24:48: that I'm right-handed you know?

00:24:50: And I Also use The opportunity whenever I can to stand on One leg.

00:24:58: So there are many things just to stimulate my brain because not only have you written books about what the brain is and how it's constructed.

00:25:06: And build up, but also about what you can do To make your brain keep working Because brain health Is something that we would like to promote regardless of Your status?

00:25:21: You're age and so on too.

00:25:22: ensure that you have good quality in your life.

00:25:26: Sometimes I am asking probably you too, if it's an inevitable fact that we decline cognitively as we age.

00:25:37: What would say to us?

00:25:39: I wish i could fully bust this myth but its...I can't!

00:25:44: How do look at

00:25:46: how

00:25:48: long will live enough inevitable.

00:25:57: So I think the answer would be yes, we have to aim for living with pathology without getting symptoms and that kind of push the decline ahead of us ideally beyond end-of-life.

00:26:17: so As you say, some changes are part of normal aging and we process information a bit more slowly.

00:26:30: Multitasking gets harder.

00:26:32: but it has been now some really interesting study especially in Amsterdam where they study the enroll study participants that are cognitively intact at the age of hundred And then follow them from there.

00:26:52: So they are already pre-selected as resilient, but even in these patients almost all had pathology In the brain at the end of their life and it was very common with Alzheimer's pathology.

00:27:14: It was very coming without pathology.

00:27:18: The more you had, the more cognitive decline did they have in the end.

00:27:23: So age is most important risk factor for cognitive decline and neurodegeneration.

00:27:33: but I think a couple of years ago we had this Lancet commission on dementia.

00:27:42: so one thing was pathology to stop that at the moment, but we do have some risk factors... ...that we could actually work on.

00:27:55: So the Lancet Commission had fourteen risk factors.

00:27:59: That is something you can do about physical inactivity high blood pressure High cholesterol Diabetes smoking Alcohol Hearing loss Vision loss depression, loneliness.

00:28:15: So and we have actually also seen that in several countries at a seventy years old today has lower risk of dementia than a seventy seventy five years old some decades ago.

00:28:32: so I think what we would take from that is that we should try to stay physically active keep a normal blood pressure and cholesterol, and blood shocker in check.

00:28:51: You're searing aid if you need one... And try to stay socially and mentally engaged?

00:29:00: Exactly!

00:29:00: Because I think that was so beautifully summed up very nicely because the whole body gets weird and teared during life.

00:29:11: we have that.

00:29:13: Otherwise we wouldn't be able to live if it didn't leave signs.

00:29:18: But then again, how to handle them and still feel that you have a good life?

00:29:24: And as you say... We shouldn't give up because even though these changes are happening It's important that we keep active That try to socially engage.

00:29:35: Even thought we're slower in our thinking than the twenty years old and we don't run as fast as the twenty five.

00:29:44: We still can provide so much to society, also quite high up in age.

00:29:51: Absolutely!

00:29:52: That's an important message for people suffering from neurological disease that it matters they do something for their brain health which is compromising mental health because being active not a vaccine, but it's reducing the risk of depression for instance which is a very tough condition.

00:30:15: So no we can't say that age doesn't make your brain go a little slower... But you can try to reduce the rate perhaps and also there are good arguments for keeping as active bigger society.

00:30:39: Yeah, and I would like to add that when we had these modifiable risk factors it's never too early but also never too late...

00:30:50: There is a fantastic study on eighty years old who started to do sports And they actually have very great effect!

00:31:02: So if you haven't done anything it's always better than to continue doing nothing.

00:31:10: But then

00:31:10: as our brain expert on this podcast, what is your favourite thing for the brain?

00:31:18: What does your hack so-to say?

00:31:22: Oh...what I do keep my brain healthy you

00:31:25: mean?!

00:31:26: Yeah!

00:31:30: Oh, that differs so much from what I would recommend to others.

00:31:36: Choose three things

00:31:39: then?

00:31:39: Okay if i'm going to choose three things to recommend... ...I'd say move physical exercise to protect your sleep and connect because we are social animals and loneliness is a risk real risk factor for dementia.

00:32:01: I have to say that i'm not very good at any of these!

00:32:07: You are a social, you're very social then Kaya and but again it's... It's also to not give up, because sometimes in life when we have small children or parents tend and work-life is hard probably won't be able to exercise as much.

00:32:26: We would like to eat perhaps food of lesser quality... ...and go less into the movies but that's only temporary!

00:32:37: There will still a new day tomorrow thankful for all the things that you do today and even little thing's help.

00:32:47: I mean, You just wrote in one of your books to take a bus then go off station earlier has two very good effects.

00:32:57: First is get-to-walk which was always nice And secondly orientate more.

00:33:05: Don't go over the same route as you're used too but have say okay yes You can also do these little things, this change in habits and actually achieve a lot for your brain health.

00:33:22: That's true!

00:33:24: So yeah it helps when you say that way.

00:33:27: of course we could do small things.

00:33:29: We are not always able to learn new musical instrument or exercise every other day but yes...we could also do smaller thing.

00:33:41: And I also think we have to say that every year in school counts.

00:33:45: When it comes to developing a brain, that's robust enough... ...to counter all these changes coming or the tough periods of free education.

00:33:55: So Kaya for Queen and then it would be Free Education!

00:34:00: That is nice.

00:34:01: Thank you so much for coming here.

00:34:03: Kaya Is there something you'd like our listeners before we close up?

00:34:08: take care of your brain, because you're brain is the only irreplaceable organ that we have.

00:34:14: It's... We can transplant hearts and kidneys but not the brain Because The Brain Is You.

00:34:19: I love

00:34:20: that

00:34:20: Kaia!

00:34:20: Thank you so much for joining us on the Brain Health Mission podcast And to all the listeners.

00:34:27: i really hope you enjoy this as much As I did.

00:34:30: Fantastic To Have Kaia On Board And if you want to know more about neurology, about brain health and how to take care of your health in general

00:34:41: then

00:34:42: stay tuned.

00:34:43: You find our Brain Health Mission podcast on the average platforms or anywhere where you can find podcasts.

00:34:51: Thankyou so much Kaja!

00:34:55: If

00:35:04: you enjoyed today's episode, don't forget to follow us on Spotify or your favourite podcast app so that never miss an update.

00:35:10: For more tools tips

00:35:12: and expert insights

00:35:13: head to brainhealthmission.org That is BrainHealthMission.org.

00:35:17: A special thank-you from

00:35:19: our

00:35:19: supporting partner Roche for supporting the mission Until next time.

00:35:23: take care of your brain.

00:35:24: It's The Only One You've Got!